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Artistic Artifacts Here's a great site for all the junk you've thrown out but suddenly 'need' again! It is still in progress but mark it for further browsing.

WOW- they got this right on my horror-scope today: "A new idea may not spark your enthusiasm, but others will endorse it in a big way."

I am feeling alone and unloved today after wading through a bunch of ridiculous hate mail from QA for my little post, which, I might add, was only defending myself from being called a snotty elitist! (Thanks a bunch, Monica.)

Which I am not. I am simply an old codger-quilter who now realizes that the 'tone' of the QA list has changed over the years from trying to attain 'being a quilt artist' to something a bit more simplistic, like getting art cred for making any old quilt! Oh well. Now I remember why I left the list last time, it wasn't 'feeding' me anything but vitriol and bile. That I can also get kicking puppies on the street or hanging a swastika on my front gate. (this is a **joke**, folks- now I must be very specific!)

So, what follows is a synopsis of my messages, edited, and my answers, if needed, so I don't clog the list with even more foolishness. First, here's Monica's post and my answer- THEN you get the meat, stay with me here: (I have deleted last names so visitors simply won't know the cast of characters.)

Monica wrote:
The person who was so disparaging about Disney and commercial
fabric is among the "Snotty " elite on this list and likes putting people
down who make simple pleasures for friends and relatives.
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Lia wrote:
I was thinking it might be helpful to have a complete list of the who
the "Snotty" elite members of this list are. Instead of identifying
them one at a time, we could keep track and make it available on the
quiltart web page so we could all refer to it as needed. We could
either sign-up or nominate others. (Or vote on it!)
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I wrote:
Well, Lia- I guess I will have to nominate myself here- frankly I am thrilled
to be ANYthing 'elite', and I guess 'snotty' is as good as I'm going to get.
Can I be Snotty Elite #1?

Monica- I hope you got back and re-read my message about that fabric- my
question was how does Disney (or any other character-image-cartoon TM fabric)
fit into 'Quilt Art'? How can one take this stuff and turn it around into
something that would fit into what an 'artist' would do? If you did a picture
of Mickey in oils your work would be thought of as trite and hackneyed (unless
you are Jeff Koons!)- what gives us the right to use the same image, except
it was not even drawn by us, in a quilt and to call it our 'art'?

PLEASE, anyone, if you have Quilt Art with Disney involved, post the photos and
let us all judge how you're doing! Naturally in a supportive and positive way.
Let us know about the ribbons you've won and the new machines you have been
gifted with. Or anything else! But frankly I am feeling like I am being
attacked without any credentials on your part.

I never 'disparaged' Walt et al either- I have spent many hours with him over
my lifetime, but I also did that with the Rockford Files and MTV and My Name is
Earl- doesn't mean I am making quilts about them. Now a disclaimer- I NEVER
attacked the grandmas on the list who are making little lovies for their kids-
that's fine for them. What I don't see is how any of those 'lovies' qualify as
quilt art. I don't have grandchildren, in fact may never have grandchildren,
but if I do I would want that kid to have my very best individual creative
efforts. I cannot believe that we all don't feel the same!

SO- make up your mind- either you are an artist or you are a quilty craft lady,
or perhaps on a journey between the two. If you are the former, fine, drop the
Disney stuff and move on into originality and experimentation. If you are the
latter, then what are you doing on this list? I am NOT being a snobby elitist
here, just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

BTW, I ALWAYS use commercial fabrics so lets erase that from the debate. I
don't dye my own fabric, in fact rarely even paint my own fabrics- don't
personally like the look with what I do- there- I am a snobby elitist about
hand dyes too. And I would NEVER put anyone down for making 'simple pleasures
for friends and family'. Geesh, you should taste my meatloaf.
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Rebecca wrote:
In response to your comment below -- Tigger and Eyore
seemed to figure into a few cool pieces you have
created. Why can't Mickey Mouse or anything Disney
figure into quilt art? Imagine Mickey Mouse a la
Pauline Nadelstern. How cool could that be?
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My answer:
The Tigger piece, 'Building a Better Tiger' was in response to Roy, of Siegfried and...) getting his head bitten by his white tiger. It is not a piece I would enter, or indeed would call 'serious'. it was simply ironic commentary on a current event. I used a discontinued vintage pattern of a Tigger stuffed animal for the image and a purloined publicity picture of Siegfried and Roy. The Eeyore piece, 'Eeyore at the DNC', from the same discontinued pattern of Pooh animals illustrated the physical resemblance between Eeyore and John Kerry in an apolitical statement. Another ironic current event commentary, made for my own amusement. I have nothing against amusement, and in fact wouldn't even be in this pickle if I ever saw a Disney fabric quilt made with humor and wit. I HAVE seen wonderful pieces made with cartoon fabrics that do display humor and irony- see my old friend Wendy Huhn or Shawn Quinlan or Mac McNamara for a start.
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Pam wrote:
I found Yogi Bear on the internet, printed him out on fabric and put him in
a quilt. Several people have told me they worried about me violating
copyright, but I figured it fell under the "artistic satire" type use.
It's a silly joke, comparing Yogi Bear to a master yogi, but the quilt has
been juried into two shows.
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Me again: OK, this is exactly what I was talking about- using the image in a NEW way- see my post above about Eeyore and Tigger! I'd love to see the Yogi Bear quilt, especially since I am married to a real yogi!
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Jackie wrote:
First, my credentials: I don't have any. Don't have a degree in art, art
history, or anything close to it. Haven't won anything either.

Second, I always thought that the media was what one used to make art, not that
the media made art. If I chose to make a fabric collage and Disney's Cinderella
figured into it because I was raised with Cinderella-like expectations which,
naturally, went unfulfilled, couldn't that be an art quilt or wearable art?

When I started reading these posts, I thought about Andy Warhol and his Campbell
Soup Cans. Commercial image, yes. Art, yes.
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Me: If you can DO something as interesting and NEW and Andy Warhol did back then with his images of pop culture and commercialism, go for it! It's my personal thought that you can create your OWN story and use your own imagery and make something better than before- moving on is never a bad thing. Harkening back to history is good too sometimes.
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Pamela wrote:
There ARE art related uses for such things. Think of the comments Shawn
Quinlan makes in his art using VERY common and sometimes cliched images that
are most effective as satire. My (British, artist) husband thinks Disney
has a lot to answer for in diluting true cultural icons like Winnie the
Pooh....and he has a point. But as Sandra mentions....we North Americans
were "raised on Disney and Cronkite and Martin Luther King" to quote Joanie
Mitchell, and I personally am ambivalent about the whole Disney genre. I
LOVED Snow White, Pinochio et al. But one has to admit Snow White may be the
Sunbonnet Sue of pop culture.
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Me again: Laughing. I thought we killed Sue off long ago. Maybe we are now copying the copies!
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Marilyn:
(sent a photo of an adorable little girl proudly standing in front of her Little Mermaid quilt) Unfortunately she sent it to
the list not realizing it can't be seen.
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Me: Very cute. Your quilt is charming and I hope she drags it around loving it for years!
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Dale Anne:
Is it just me or the list started to feel real nasty lately!???
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Wahoo! It's way nasty.
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Scott:
I agree with LOiS that the two categories need not be mutually
exclusive--the grandkids can see Grandma as a quilty crafty lady as
youngsters and grow to appreciate her as an artist as they get older. And
she can bounce back and forth between the two without any 'journeying' in
between. Do you think a gourmet chef never wants a simple hamburger and
french fries from time to time?
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Me:
But here I really see that it is the other way around- the hamburger guy wants a fancy meal once in awhile but doesn't have the SKILL SET yet to do it so uses mixes or short cuts and never quite gets to gourmet. And yes, you CAN 'bounce back and forth', I do myself when I make a bed quilt, BUT you still should do the ordinary with extroidinary care and artistry. (curly fries?)
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Naomi
Never cared much who artists are, how they live their lives, what their opinions are, etc.
Didn't realize we had to show our CV at the door to QuiltArt.
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Me: Of course you don't. Most of us on QA are still building that CV. All I am hoping for with this group is that we are striving forward with our work and doing the best we can do to make individual, personal, and creative statements. There is a wealth of resource here to help the newer folks get on board to do this and to learn the tips of the trade. Unfortunately, many comments are taken SO personally...
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Kimberly:
What is the flash point of a quilting list? Not very high actually. Mercury is still in retrograde ;-)
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Deb:
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! #@*@@#%

...getcher peanuts, popcorn....
..Hey BEAH HEAH! Let's PLAY BALL!
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Anonymous:
Guess we will have to start a new site: www.quiltartforsmartasspeople.com
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Me: Sounds like I might already be the CEO of that venture.
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Sharon's answer to:
'And what is an effete snob anyway? '
One with too many shoes..
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Me: OH NO. Now I am a snotty elite AND an effete snob! The shoe thing put me right over the top.
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Tricia:
To suggest that fine Art cannot contain images from
popular culture seems to dismiss Art that comments on culture. I'm
not sure what kind of reproduction rights Andy Warhol procured, but he
made many works of Art with images from popular culture:
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--10008565/Mickey_Mouse.htm#

I certainly don't mind a discussion of copyright, but I would not
agree with the notion that some elements (legal or not) qualify or
disqualify a work as Art. Mickey Mouse may be legal or not, but even
illegal works can be Art.
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Me: No where did I suggest fine art can't contain images from popular culture (see above about my collages!) It isn't something I would ever 'dismiss'. My point is that Better Art can be made with MORE personal input and less input from sources that have already become hackneyed and overdone. I won't even GO to the copyright issue, but it has been known that Disney comes after violators- why take the chance? Your art will be better without it, but it may take more of a struggle to do. Believe me, it will be worth the effort to get something that is wholly yours.
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LOis:
Today I deleted the whole mess and everything else that I hadn't yet read.

While I do think people could self-edit better, I also think that we need to
realize that some people are just pretty straight forward in stating their
opinions. Hey, better that than a bunch of wishy washy "oh, that's nice"
comments.
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Me: Yup, self-editing would be nice but even NICER would be a careful reading of the offending posts first! If one considers each line maybe one won't be so fast to pound out angry answers. I have been around the block- maybe I do know something that hasn't been discussed here yet, and I have a wealth of exposure and experience to share.
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Susan:
What some people see as "nasty", others consider to be incisive comments,
common sense, cleverness, invective, sarcasm, or just plain entertaining fun. We
will never all agree on anything, whether it's how to achieve world peace in
our time or which way the toilet paper should hang. No matter how much someone
pleads "Can't we all just get along?" the answer will be NO, we can't.
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Me: sigh...
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Carolyn:
I once saw a painting that showed Superman in combat with the Mexican
mythical god, Quetzalcoatl. It was very symbolic and enjoyable on
many levels. My point: Mickey Mouse could be used very effectively
in an art quilt and need not be relegated to comfy quilts for the
grandkids.
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Me: Of course it's possible- when you see something like this, let us know.
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Sandra: (not me, another one)
BTW, I think one can be both a quilt artist and a quilty crafty person simultaneously and from project to project.
Too bad people are cranky and I don't mean the dino.
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Shoshanna :
I'm one of those crafty ladies who likes to make quilts for
the beds of friends. And if said friend wants a LeMoyne star, then that
is what she is going to get. So I guess perhaps I should just pack up my
fabrics and slink off into the night.
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Me, to both Sandra and Shoshanna: Sure- most of us move back and forth between making broad art statements and making cozy bed quilts but there is no reason your 'art' can't transfer to the bedquilts! Show off on everything with your best creative efforts. My bottom line is for EVERYONE to strive to do better work all the time, to dig deep into your history of experience and life issues- it's up to you individually to decide why you need to still work with other people's images.
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Yippee and Yahoo! This message just in and it will be my last quote from a new friend: "I wish there could be a real quiltart list again" Better words haven't crossed my screen in days.